►少數族裔與影像的力量| YMCA x ifva 影像無國界．映後對談 文字足本版 The Power of Ethnic Minorities and Images ．YMCA x ifva All About Us．Online Screening X Sharing
節錄二 Part II：討論「共融工作」與「少數族裔」的身份與標籤 Discussion on “Inclusion work”, the identity and stereotype issue of “Ethnic Minority”
► 重溫節目 PROGRAMME ARCHIVE: https://www.facebook.com/FBISRB/videos/3433649020085006/
盛虹：不如我們轉換一下討論的方向，談到少數族裔，我們有時會區分「香港人」、「本地人」，問一下大家，第一次接觸少數族裔或少數族裔第一次接觸本地人是怎樣的？在營會或是日常生活也好。例如Kelvin的共融計劃，平常接觸學生或其他工作層面。就例如營會有沒有轉變你們的看法？「原來本地人是這樣的？」「原來少數族裔朋友是這樣的？」有沒有呢？有沒有改變了以前的看法呢？
Harry：我現在住在宿舍裏，那裏有個活動探訪宿舍的宿生，當我分享時，有人會問「你讀IB（國際預科文憑）?」「你在外國留學過？」他們有固定的想法。「你會說廣東話？好厲害！」例如語言上，香港人也會說英文，那我會說廣東話也很合理，也不是太出類拔萃。住在香港也要懂廣東話。有時他們固定的想法，我覺得雙方少了點彼此理解對，他本來有個想法，他們不會問，「他一定讀IB吧！」「他一定去過外國留學。」「一定說英文吧！」這限制了我們，假設了我不懂廣東話，也不懂本地時事和社會現況。
盛虹：你在影像無國界營會裏認識了本地的導師或助理，你們如何相處？有沒有認識多了，改變你的想法？
Harry：比較少，因為我平常都多接觸本地人。
盛虹：因為你在香港長大？
Harry：不，我中一才來香港。在營會之前，我有當過兼職，在快餐店工作。那裏多數都是本地人，與他們相處也很開心，對香港產生歸屬感。在營會裏，我發現香港人很專業，很有想法，做每件事前都細心考慮，也很用心。
盛虹：林森，你接觸過這麼多少數族裔的學生，你有甚麼感受？
林森：回想最初接觸所謂少數族裔的年輕人，我最初以為來自巴基斯坦、印度或所謂南亞裔的才是少數族裔，這可能是香港人的既有印象，後來參與了幾屆的計劃或發現，參加的年輕人來自五湖四海，許多不同的族裔、種族，可能有巴基斯坦、印度、越南、泰國、馬來西亞、菲律賓，甚至乎有學生來自日本。以前從未想過除了某些族裔外，還有更小眾的。我也不知道某些族群也是少數族裔，不知道他們也在面對一些困難跟其他族群差不多。擴闊了我許多我對他們生活的想像。剛才有提及，營會之間有不同的場合會一起外出，或到他們的學校接觸他們，知道他們生活的地方如何，去他們家裏，甚至一起吃飯。更多時間和他們相處時，正如Harry所說，他們關心香港，知道社會發生甚麼事，也喜歡香港的文化，他們會去卡拉OK，會聽廣東歌、吃米線、哈哈。以前的既有印象就是，少數族裔只會做自己文化的活動，或專注自己的生活。當我真正花時間去接觸一個人，就看見他真正的生活是如何，更加了解他們時，就發覺彼此其實沒有甚麼分別，都只不過是在同一個地方生活。
盛虹：Kelvin呢？
Kelvin：這一點我感到有點不開心。我們經常聽到少數族裔朋友和青年人說「有機會學到這些真好」「謝謝ifva影像無國界給了機會我們拍片」我就想「為什麼他們要感謝ifva給了機會他們？」作為香港的年輕人，他們可以參加許多活動，有許多機會去學習，但少數族裔朋友可能就有些障礙，令他們無法想拍片就拍片，想去營會就去營會。例如有些少數族裔朋友不懂中文，甚至不懂英文，因為不同的宗教背景要吃不同的食物生活有不同的宗教儀式，這些就成為他們參與活動的障礙或限制。正如Harry所說，他可以參加任何一間青少年中心的活動學拍片，但最後所以教材都是中文，同學都是講中文的。例如有個巴基斯坦的朋友去參加營會，發現那裏沒有清真的食物，他無法融入。這些就是一些限制，我們作為本地人，作為本地社工，我們不理解、不知道或誤解他們了，所以形成了種無形的障礙去阻止他們去參加活動或學習，但他們作為香港的年輕人，撇除種族和宗教文化，也應該是平等的，我年輕時可以做哪些，你年輕時也可以做那些。ifva這計劃到了第十一屆，這是個很好的示範給了其他的機構、朋友和學校，我們作為大人，作為社工或是老師，只要我們做多一點，少數族裔的學生就不要被孤立，因為某些事情被隔絕。當然他們在營會或整個計劃，他們透過影像可以表達自己的感受，也有許多很好的成品，但我更希望他們慢慢可以在其他不同的地方和平台，沒有限制、容易地發揮自己。這是我一點的掙扎。
盛虹：許多機構或是這個ifva的計劃想為少數族裔朋友和青年提供一個平台，平日他們可能會缺少某些機會。那關於這方面，你可以多分享一些嗎？
Kelvin：我們經常說共融工作或「少數族裔」工作，其實這個詞是種標籤，代表有大眾和小眾之分，為甚麼要這樣區分呢？但社會還沒有共識去處理這標籤。我覺得共融不是把「香港人」和「非香港人」或是不同國籍的人放在一起，這不是共融。我們經常說的歧視或香港人對少數族裔不禮貌，是誤解所做成的。香港是個多種族多元化的地方，我自己作為華人，不太認識其他地方的文化，許多東西都是我開始這份工作，主力做少數族裔青少年服務才學習，就是這種誤解才做成一面牆。例如我在街上見到一名巴基斯坦裔男生，我不知道他會不會中文，我就默默走過，但其實他是土生土長的。歷史上許多的少數族裔，他們在香港已經到了第四、五代。我覺得共融或是做一些事情令大家互相理解彼此的文化背景。為甚麼要這樣？為甚麼某些宗教要女生包頭？為甚麼有些朋友可以或不能吃某種食物？為甚麼呢？我希望有一個地方可以讓大家理解彼此的想法和生活，這種理解和學習是共融地開始。經驗就是，我期望在不同活動都可以成為橋樑讓大家互相理解、互相學習、互相認識。
盛虹：埼埼有沒有類似的經驗？例如與少數族裔合作
埼埼：我想回應一下他們。我在想，我作為華人在外地，我就變成了少數族裔。如果我們切身處地去想，會更容易明白那種處境。每個人都可以是少數族裔，只視乎我們身處的環境，我們都可以換位思考，我可以更容易去面對與自己不同的人。再引伸到不同的種族…我經常覺得「不同」或「距離」不單只是種族，年齡也有分「青年」和「年長的人」，他們之間是否也有世代的隔膜呢？世代之間是否也有標籤呢？例如青年人就是「暴徒」？是否這樣？又例如我做學生作品，有人覺得學生作品就是次等的，但學生作品珍貴之處不在於技術，而是它又獨特的價值，很純粹，真正代表著年輕人的聲音。它的獨特性是無可比擬的，就像每個人都是獨一無二。聽到他們分享後，我發現歧視或距離是無處不在的。
盛虹：我很同意Kelvin說，共融不是把不同的人放在一起，當中是非常複雜的。就影像無國界這計劃而言，剛才我跟負責人聊，他們堅持不混入本地參加者，就是維持初衷，提供機會給少數族裔的朋友。透過拍攝過程、與導師相處、最後的校園放映，呈現一個另類的現實，「平時是那樣，其實我們是這樣」，令大家互相理解之後，希望大家接納彼此的不同，是多元的表現，社會上有不同的人，本來就是多元，如果社會是單向地發展就會不健康。這個平台就讓各位理解彼此的不同，尤其是少數族裔的朋友的想法。最終正如林森所說，他們跟我們都是一樣的，喜歡吃東西，有夢想，會不開心，有愛情的煩惱，都是這樣的，當然會有些宗教等因素。Harry你在香港…你在中一之後就在香港讀書長大？
Harry：對
盛虹：你的經驗裏…你是越南人對吧？
Harry：對
盛虹：但你會認為自己是香港人或是越南人？
Harry：一半一半
盛虹：那你怎樣想？
Harry：我已經在這六年了，回去越南的機會也少，所以我已經失去了越南籍。我都不太開心，我在家不太講話，我妹妹也XX，說廣東話也都不太好，我一直都…怎說呢，我沒有擅長的語言，所以思考有許多限制，思考都不會到很闊，我覺得香港人都可以有很多想法，但我都想不到。因為我沒有自己的語言，我就想不到，我只能用英文去思考，但英文對我都有限制，本身英文對我就有限制，越南話對我都有限制，廣東話對我又有限制，所以做事或表達自己時會有很多障礙
盛虹：無論是語言或身份，你都感到有些迷失？
Harry：是
盛虹：那你本地人或朋友聊天時會聊到這些話題嗎？
Harry：會啊，最近我在宿生探訪，每次大概二十五至三十分鐘，時常都會講不停，有時會介紹越南，聊一下我面對的問題，現在在大學有不同的活動例如上莊。上莊是一件大事，但上莊經常會用中文，如果上莊時他人都說中文，我有無法用中文表達自己，會是一種遺憾，因為語言不通，我才沒法參加活動，蠻不開心的。
盛虹：但你的廣東話也不差啊
Harry：你覺得我廣東話不錯是因為其他少數族裔說得比較差，我說得比較好，如果我與本地人比較，我廣東話就不好了。
盛虹：在宿生探訪，與他人聊天時，他們有沒有更多了解你的生活？
Harry：有啊，他們會說…他們會鼓勵我說語言障礙不是大問題，視乎情況，只要我盡力就可以了，不要被它所限制。
盛虹：最後上莊與否都只視乎你的意願？
Harry：是啊，要說很多話，這一刻我記不起，是要說很多話的，要做四、五十個，許多的活動，我都記不到。
盛虹：為甚麼我想談談少數族裔共融服務如何令大家彼此理解呢？我看見有一位學生在網誌上分享，他以前對少數族裔有些不太好的印象，剛才再聊過，他曾在深水埗見到有些南亞裔的朋友很古惑，後來他參加了影像無國界計劃，與少數族裔朋友一起玩、一起拍片，他就發現很有趣，每個人都很獨立，發現了許多新事物，他發覺刻板印象是個循環，困在裏面就走不出來，當他認識和理解他人，他發現每個少數族裔朋友都很獨特，他們都跟我們一樣。大家起初可能不太理解彼此，但又以為自己很理解，這類計劃就成為一個橋樑。這方面大家還有沒有分享？
林森：我覺得更重要的是我們去了解他們的生活，或我們刻板印象的成因。這是真的，在工作坊裏，有些同學不太會時間管理，或是不太投入。例如我約了他們五點鐘，八個人的小組，最後只有兩個人出現。後來更了解他們的想法，發現他們成長中，學校的規範、規矩令他們反感，也因為他們從來都不在主流中，令他們又些另類的反應和習慣。這些習慣有些是負面的，或看似是負面的，但我們該如何理解呢？我們要找出背後的原因。這都很重要。
Kelvin：林森說的我都常掛在嘴邊，在我服務的機構有少數族裔的同事。有時到其他地方開會，有人會問「為何會雇用他們？他們經常遲到的。」其實我的同事也很準時。有時要多角度去看事情，你有十個南亞裔同事都經常遲到，他們都是南亞裔，因此南亞裔都會遲到？其實可以再看深一層。當然有些人真的有遲到習慣，但我們就要再想想為甚麼呢，可能是要顧小孩，可能他們的國家文化是「慢活」一點的，很放鬆的，但香港是個爭分奪秒的地方，用盡所有時間、效率很高，這是香港的價值觀，但他們的成長文化和背景，父母或文化的生活方式就會慢慢來，今天做不完的就明天做。很難說誰對誰錯，在香港很重視守時，上班要守時，我們盡量去解釋我們對紀律的想法和重要性，但同時有嘗試了解他們的想法，為甚麼覺得遲到也無所謂呢。這不是要分對錯，不是要為誰辯解，但每個問題要想深一層，可能我們會得到一個有趣的答案，老闆不接受也好，得到了答案就了解多一點。他們有些工作只需要一星期上班三、四天，甚至有指定下午茶時間，沖沖茶很放鬆的，保持好奇心就會發現很多有趣的事情。
林森：談談剛才一個例子，為甚麼有些人認為深水埗的南亞人特別古惑等等呢？再看想想，可能他們自小就被迫在街頭賺錢維生，或是他們沒辦法好好升學，可能因為他們的中文不太好，有許多的限制令他們無法考到本地水平的中文試，這侷限了他們在街頭賺錢維生，令他們從事我們不喜歡的工作，或是做出我們不喜歡的行為。但為什麼會這樣呢？我們應該找出原因。
盛虹：對，我們可以找出刻板印象的成因，當然背後成因可能很複雜。
林森：譬如說我在工作坊教課才知道，少數族裔的學生有母語做第一語言，到香港後英文就是第二語言，再要學習第三語言中文，而且中文跟母語和英文的語言系統很大差別，語言的概念很不一樣，對比我們，他們學習中文就很辛苦。所以我們要學習帶同理心易地而處，如果我再多學兩個語言也都很困難。
盛虹：我們談下一個題目，電影如何賦權。林森作為職業導演，而Harry作為學生導演，透過影像實現你們的想像，拍攝能否提升自我？可不可以呢？
林森：可以的…
盛虹：我看了影像無國界的網誌，有些導師舉了些例子，有些學生畫了一部電話，剪接後下一個鏡頭就把它變成了一部真的電話。而你隊伍的影片中，有一包薯片，有字母從薯片中走出來？（對）導師在網誌說，他一開始覺得這方法很費時，後來他就覺得這是種香港人的思考方式而已，而你們整隊也同意這個創作手法，最終實行後你們也很開心。其實這很簡單…不不不，這個過程中，你們可以實現你們想要的效果已經很開心，而且你們自主下決定，想字母從薯片包裝鑽出來。對你來說，在拍攝的過程中你體驗到自主行嗎？將想法實體化呈現出來的過程是怎樣的？
林森：那個是完成基礎拍攝課程後的實驗，視乎情況，例如廣告要很有活力、很有趣、很輕鬆，視乎目的再做，要先接受各人的意見，聽聽別人的想法再下決定，當然要嘗試，也可能出錯。
盛虹：林森你認為拍片可不可以提升自我？透過創作電影，可不可以賦權予青年朋友？
林森：一定會的。電影是很吸引人的媒介，直接將創作人的想法和信息透過影像或戲劇呈現給觀眾，「這就是我的意思，你聽聽吧」，這過程是種發聲的行動。簡單來說，歷屆影像無國界的作品有些是少數族裔述說自己的故事，但不是所有作品都附有這麼大的意義，可能是純粹的趣味，或是單純展現自己的喜好、另外一面。甚至有同學喜歡印度電影和那舞蹈，他想重現這種風格，過程中也發現自己是有能力去做的，對他們來說也是有力度的賦權
盛虹：埼埼呢？
埼埼：Harry和林森剛才說到製作的過程如何內化影像的力量，創作人享受自己的作品當然不錯，如果與更多的人分享作品，又得到觀眾的回應，那種雙向的迴響對創作人和觀眾更有力量。所以影像無國界計劃也是創作整體的一部分，作品要置於他人眼前，外界才會知道你的想法，溝通的過程中，又會對自身多種看法，所以發表或放映也是重要的一環。
盛虹：自己團隊看和公開放映應該很不同
埼埼：我以前做學生影展時，有些年輕創作人說，他們拍完以後也無法確立創作人的身份，但觀眾在公眾放映問他問題，那種交流令他知道作品已經達到了一定的水平，那迴響原來很大，令他知道他的工作很有意思，確立了他的身份。Harry剛才提到身份認同，這個方法可能使我們更清楚自己是誰，更清楚未來的方向
林森：撇除去年疫情影響，以往在營會或計劃最後的作品都到電影院放映和分享會，有些參與的同學會很感觸，看見自己的作品在電影院播放，用大銀幕和厲害的音響系統觀看自己的作品，這是他們從未能想像的。
盛虹：Kelvin有類似的經驗嗎？
Kelvin：這為他們提供了一個舞台，沒有人指示他們該怎樣走，這舞台是自主的。團隊裏有不同族裔的朋友，可能是自己的同學，也可能是營會認識的新朋友，這個舞台就屬於他們，為自己創作，做自己想做的事，享受樂趣也會，帶出背後的信息、意義也好，最重要的是他們建構了屬於自己的舞台。放映也很重要，正如剛才所說，舞台不是自己看了就算，舞台要展示於人前，別人也要看見自己一手一腳完成的作品。這是否充權（賦權）？可能也是。最重要他人看見他們的努力和想法。今年無法辦放映會，希望用網上的平台與大家分享自己的心血、自己的心聲、自己開心做出來的成品，讓大家都看見。
盛虹：Harry你那時有觀看放映嗎？
Harry：有啊，我那一屆？（對）有的，也有邀請老師來看，然後跟朋友去吃飯，這個過程也很開心，很有意義。
盛虹：有沒有剛剛林森所說的感受？
Harry：第一次有的，”Where are you”已經是第二次了，第一次有的，那時不知道戲院設備如何，非常期待，看完作品後很有成功感。
盛虹：那你現在閒時有沒有拍片？
Harry：有的，像是日常生活的短片，我在宿舍與一群朋友創了個概念，名叫「組」，就是只一群人，第一天進宿舍已經一起玩，我們去玩的時候也會拍片，問一下朋友「你覺得怎樣？」，好像在紀錄生活點滴，拍片可以運用動態、音效等元素，是保存回憶的好辦法。
盛虹：謝謝各位的分享，映後談在此結束，謝謝。
Hung：Let’s move on to another topic. There’re labels like “ethnic minorities”, “Hong Kongers” and “locals”. How was your first impression for “ethnic minorities” as a local? And how were “locals” from the perspective of ethnic minorities? How were they in the camp or in your daily life? And Kelvin, what about inclusion services you’re working on? Did the camp change your thoughts? Like “oh, I never thought about this and that” Did that happen to you? Do you think differently now?
Harry：I’m staying in the university hostel now. They hold visits for hostel residents regularly. When I talked about myself, some asked, “Did you study IB?” “Did you study overseas before?”. They had lots of assumptions. “Oh, you can speak Cantonese. Amazing!”. Speaking of language, it makes so much sense that I speak Cantonese when people in Hong Kong speak English too. It doesn’t make me outstanding. Living in Hong Kong has to understand Cantonese. Sometimes these assumptions stop us from understanding each other. Yes, assumptions stop us from asking questions. “I think he studies IB.” “I think he studied oversea before.” “He can only speak English.” These constrain our thoughts. They assumed I don’t speak Cantonese and I know nothing about the current affairs in the city.
Hung：You met several local artists and assistants in the training camp. How did you guys get along? Any new thoughts after getting to know each other?
Harry：Not very much ‘cause I have many friends who are local.
Hung: You grew up here?
Harry: No, I came here at my F.1. But I had a part-time job in a fast food shop. There were mainly locals. It’s fun to be with them. They’ve made me feel belonged. In the camp, I found Hong Kongers are very professional. They are very creative, thoughtful and detail-minded.
Hung：Sum, after meeting so many ethnic minority students, how do you feel about it?
Sum：When I first got in touch with ethnic minority youth, I thought ethnic minorities meant people from Pakistan, India or so-called South Asia. Perhaps these are some of our assumptions. After mentoring for a few years, I found the participants were from all over the world, for example, Pakistan, India, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, the Philippines or even Japan. I didn’t know that there are some minorities within the minorities. I didn’t know some ethnicities are recognised as minorities too. And they actually were facing similar difficulties. The programme broadened my imagination on their real life. As mentioned, in between the two camps, we have outdoor shootings or school visits on occasions. I got to know where they live, visited their home or even had dinner with them. We have spent lots of time together. As Harry said, they care about Hong Kong. They know what’s going on in the community. They love local culture, they go to karaoke, they listen to Canton-pop and they like rice noodles!. In the past, I thought ethnic minorities only stick to their own culture and focused on themselves. When I really get to know one of them, I see how his/her real life is. I’ve found that we’re all pretty much the same. We’re all living in the same place after all.
Hung：What about Kelvin?
Kelvin：I was a bit upset somehow. I always heard from my ethnic minority friends say “It’s so kind of you teaching us these.” “Thank you ifva for giving us such an opportunity.” I’d say, “why should you thank us?” Being a youngster in Hong Kong, they could join many activities and could have the opportunities to learn. But there are obstacles stopping them from making films or joining the camps. Some of them may not know Chinese or even English, and perhaps they need a special diet because of their religions. These become obstacles stopping them from taking part in the activities. As Harry said, he could learn film production at any youth centre. But the course only provides Chinese teaching materials, and his classmates speak only chinese too. I got a friend from Pakistan and he joined a camp. He couldn’t enjoy it ‘cause no halal food was available. These are the obstacles. If we, as locals or local social workers, misunderstand or neglect their needs, we create hurdles for those who want to learn. They should be treated equally as a part of Hong Kong regardless of their race and religion. What I can do should be the same with what you can do. It comes to the 11th year of the programme. It’s a very good demonstration for other NGOs and schools. No ethnic minority student will be isolated ever again if we take one step forward as social workers or teachers. They could express their feelings through visual media in the camp and in the whole programme. There were many great films. I hope they can tap into their talents freely on other different platforms in the future. These are some struggles of mine.
Hung：Many NGOs including this programme offer a platform for ethnic minorities who have fewer opportunities. Can you elaborate on this?
Kelvin：When it comes to inclusion or “ethnic minorities” services, it’s actually a kind of label, which means that there are “minority” and “majority”. How can we distinguish this two? We don’t have a solid answer for that yet. I think inclusion isn’t about putting “Hong Kong people” and “non-Hong Kong people” together. That’s not inclusion. We realished there’s discrimination against ethnic minorities, and locals might be a bit rude to them. That’s the result of misunderstanding. Hong Kong is a multi-ethnic city of diversity. However, as an ethnic Chinese, I didn’t know much about the other cultures. I didn’t know much until I started this job serving ethnic minority youth service. Misunderstanding creates a wall between “locals” and the “minorities”. Perhaps I see a random Pakistani boy on the street. I don’t know if he can speak Chinese, and I walk by silently. But in fact he’s actually born and raised in Hong Kong. Many ethnic minorities have reached the 4th or 5th generations in Hong Kong. Inclusion is to understand each other’s cultural backgrounds. Why is this? Why do some girls wear headscarves for religious reasons? Why is certain food prohibited? Why? I hope that at some point everyone can understand each other’s thoughts and lives. Inclusion starts with mutual understanding. I, through the activities, hope to connect everyone so that they can understand each other, learn from each other, and know each other.
Hung：Do you have any similar experience, Kiki? Working with ethnic minorities?
Kiki：I’d like to respond to them. I might be a minority somewhere else on the planet being ethnically Chinese. If we put ourselves into the others’ shoes, it’ll be easier to understand the situation. Everyone can be the minority. It depends on the environment we are in. We can get along with people who are different from us more easily when we think from their perspective. When it comes to ethnicities… I feel “differences” or “distances” not only happen within ethnicities, but also generations. Is there a generational gap in between? Are there labels between generations? For example, are young people equal to “thugs”? Is it so? I encountered some people who thought that students’ products were inferior. But the value of students’ works don’t fall in the techniques, it’s their uniqueness instead. They truly represent the voice of young people. Its uniqueness is unparalleled, just like how unique every human being is. After listened their sharing, I found discrimination or the distance is everywhere.
Hung: I agree with Kelvin about inclusion. It’s not about putting different people together. It’s very complicated. I just talked to the project coordinator of “All About Us”. He insisted not to include local participants, just to stay true to their vision and to provide opportunities for ethnic minority youth. Through the filming process, the help from mentors and the final screening at schools, the programme presents an alternative reality. “It is usually like this, but in fact we are like this.”When everyone’s able to understand each other, hopefully everyone will accept each other’s differences. There’ll be diversity and inclusion. The world is full of unique individuals. It’s supposed to be very diverse. If society develops in just one way, that’s not lovely. This platform allows us to understand each other’s differences, especially the thoughts of ethnic minority friends. As Sum said, yet we’re all the same. We all love good food, we have our passions in life, we have emotions, we’re bad at relationships. We’re all like that. Of course there are some other factors like religions. Harry, in Hong Kong… you started studying in Hong Kong at F.1?
Harry：Yes
Hung: In your experience…you’re from Vietnam, right?
Harry：Yes
Hung: But would you consider yourself a Hong Konger or Vietnamese?
Harry：Half and half
Hung：So what do you think?
Harry：I’ve been here for six years, and I rarely traveled back to Vietnam, so I’ve lost my Vietnamese identity. I wasn’t not very happy. I didn’t talk a lot at home. And I don’t speak Cantonese very well. I always…how should I put it? My thoughts are so constrained ‘cause I don’t master any language. Hong Kongers are so creative, but I can’t be like them, ‘cause I don’t have my own language. I can’t think of such new ideas. I can only think in English, but English has limitations on me too. English limits my mind. Vietnamese limits my mind, and Cantonese also limits my mind.So I encounter difficulties expressing myself.
Hung：So both language barrier and identity made you feel lost?
Harry：Yes
Hung：Do you talk about it with locals or your friends?
Harry：Yes, I shared a lot at the hostel resident visits. It’s about 25 to 30 minutes each session. I talked about Vietnam, the difficulties I had. There are lots of activities in uni like joining a student society. It was a big thing. But it’s hard to avoid Chinese in a society. If I can’t express myself when everyone’s using Chinese, I will regret that. It’s so sad I can’t play a part just because of the language barrier.
Hung: But your Cantonese is quite good to me
Harry：It’s good for you ‘cause I speak better Cantonese than my ethnic minority friends. If compared with locals, I wasn’t that good.
Hung：Do the others get to know more about you at the resident visit?
Harry：Yes, they encouraged me saying language barrier isn’t a big deal, don’t let that constrain me as long as I’m willing to make an effort.
Hung：So it’s up to you eventually whether you join the society or not?
Harry：Yes. If so, I need to talk a lot. I can’t be detailed now. It’s about 40 to 50…lots of them. I can’t remember them all.
Hung：Why am I so interested in how inclusion services can change us? I saw a student sharing on his blog that he had a bad impression of ethnic minorities in the past. We just talked about it. He saw some South Asians in Sham Shui Po and they seemed very dishonest. He then participated in “All About Us”. It turned out he had a lot of fun making videos with friends from ethnic minorities. Everyone was unique and he discovered many new things. He found stereotypes are like a loop. When he was stuck inside, he couldn’t get out. Knowing and understanding others, he found that every ethnic minority friend is unique and they are just like us. We may not understand each other at first. Or we think we know each other very well. Such a programme offers a platform for all of us. Do you have anything to add?
Lam Sum：I think it’s important to understand their lives, or the causes of the stereotypes. It’s true that some students weren’t very good at time management or not very attentive. For example, I had an appointment with them at 5pm. Only two out of eight showed up in the end. I’ve learnt what their struggle was later on. As they grew up, the school’s norms and rules disgusted them ‘cause they were never in the mainstream. So they had some very special reactions and habits. Some of those are bad habits or seem to be bad, but how do we understand it? We need to find out the reason behind. That’s crucial.
Kelvin：I agreed with Sum so much. I have colleagues from ethnic minorities in the NGO I serve. Some people asked me, “why do you choose to work with them? They’re always late for work.” But in fact my colleagues are very punctual. Sometimes we have to look at things from different points of view. If there are ten South Asians who are always late. So all South Asians never show up on time? We should think carefully. It’s true that some of them love to be late, and we should think about why. Maybe it’s parenting. Maybe their culture is about a more relaxed lifestyle. On the contrary, we rush everything in Hong Kong. It’s our value to utilise every minute and to be highly efficient. But they like to take the time because of their cultural background. Just leave the task for tomorrow if it’s not finished today! It’s hard to say who is right or wrong. Punctuality is important in Hong Kong, and we must show up on time. We try to explain our culture and the importance of discipline to them. But meanwhile we need to understand their thoughts, why it doesn’t matter if they’re late. It’s not about justifying who’s right or wrong. When we think about everything at a deeper level, we may get some interesting answers. It doesn’t matter if the boss accepts the answer. Still it’s good to know. Some of them only need to go to work 3 or 4 days a week, and they even have a designated tea time. It’s so relaxing. If you stay curious, you’ll see how fun it can be.
Lam Sum：About the example we just mentioned, why South Asians sometimes seem a bit dishonest. When we think about it… some of them were forced to make a living from the street at a very young age. They couldn’t focus on their study. And they didn’t speak Chinese well. Many obstacles stop them from having their Chinese language level qualified. This has made them stay on the street, making a living by doing what we don’t like. Why is it? We need to figure out the reason.
Hung：Yes, we can find out where these stereotypes came from. It can be very complicated.
Lam Sum：In the past before I mentored the students, I didn’t realise ethnic minority students have to learn their mother tongue, English and Chinese as their 2nd and 3rd languages when they come to Hong Kong. And the three languages might be very different. So we need to feel them with empathy. For me personally, it’s so hard to learn new languages too.
Hung：Next we’ll talk about how films empower people. Sum and Harry, being directors, do you think filmmaking empowers you when your imagination is visualised?
Lam Sum：I suppose so…
Hung：I wanted the blog on the website of “All About Us”, some mentors mentioned that some participants made a painting of a mobile phone. Then the next shot, it turned into a real phone. And in “Where Are You”, a shot shows some words crawling out for a pack of potato chips, right? (Yes) The mentor said he thought such an effect was time-consuming. But later he found he was limited by Hong Konger’s perspective. And your whole team agreed with the decision. It turned out you liked the outcome so much. It was so simple… no no no. You were very happy by visualising the effect you wanted. And you made a decision according to your will making the words come out from the chips. Do you feel empowered during production? How was it when you visualised your imagination?
Lam Sum：That was an experiment after the basic filming class. It depends on the genre, like TV commercials have to be upbeating, fun and cushy. We need to accept the others’ comments., listen to each other before we make the decision. And we need to experiment first. There can be mistakes.
Hung: Sum do you think making videos can empower people? Can filmmaking empower the youth?
Lam Sum：Surely it can. Film is a really attractive medium. Through visual media or acting, it transfers the message directly to the audience from the creator. “Listen! This is my thought!” It’s about voicing out. Basically creative videos from each year’s students tell the stories of ethnic minorities. But it doesn’t mean each of them carry a complicated message. Some were just for fun, showing what they like or the other side of their life. There were students who were fascinated by Bollywood movies. They wanted to recreate the style and found they were actually capable of doing that. That was a great empowerment.
Hung：What about Kiki?
Kiki：Harry and Sum just talked about how film production can internalise the power of visual media. It’s great that the creators enjoy their own outcome. But it’s even better when the work is shared with the audience, and the audience is able to respond to it. That interaction is very powerful to both the creators and audience. “All About Us” is part of the whole creation. The public acknowledges your thoughts when the outcome is visible. Creators also know more about themselves during the process of communication. So publishing the videos also plays a very crucial part.
Hung：A public screening is very different from a internal screening within the team
Kiki：In the past, some young creators told me they couldn’t confirm their role as creators after the production. However, when the audience asked them questions at the public screening, they realised their works really reached a certain standard. The great resonance gives much meaning to their effort. Harry just talked about identity. We can know more about who we are and the direction in life by such experience.
Lam Sum: Apart from the pandemic last year, we used to hold screenings and discussions in the cinema at the end of the programme. Some participants were very touched. They could never imagine their videos were played on the big screen with professional audio equipment.
Hung：Kelvin, do you have such experience?
Kelvin：It gives the students a platform where no one gives out orders and commands. It’s autonomous. There are friends from different ethnicities in the team. Some are classmates in the same school. Some are new friends met in the camp. The stage belongs to them. They create for themselves, do what they want to do. They have fun, present a meaningful message to the audience. Most importantly, they build their own stage. The screening is very important. As mentioned, it isn’t just for entertaining themselves. The stage has to be visible. The world should see their efforts. Is that empowerment? Possibly. It matters when the world sees their effort and thoughts. We can’t hold a screening this year. We wish we can still share the students’ works, their thoughts on the online platform. Hope it goes well.
Hung：Harry, did you watch the screening?
Harry：Yes, you mean my year? (Yes) Yes, I invited my teachers at school and friends. We enjoyed it a lot. It was very meaningful.
Hung：Did you feel what Sum said?
Harry：Yes when it was the 1st time. “Where Are You” is from the 2nd. When it was my 1st time in the programme, I was so excited about the cinema setting. I felt I really achieved something seeing the screening.
Hung：Do you make videos now?
Harry：Yes, videos like vlogs. My friends from the hostel and I call ourselves “Group”, like a group of people. We’ve been friends since day one. We take videos when we go out asking them like, “how do you feel?” It’s like a vlog. Videos contain elements like motions and audio. It’s a good way to keep our memories.
Hung：Thank you everyone. This is the end of the post-screening discussion. Thank you.